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Pages: How much is expected, anyway? [1]
Author Topic: How much is expected, anyway?
hehl

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2011-01-03 5-14-11-

How much is expected, anyway? This story in today's newspaper got me wondering... synopsis: Woman and man have drinks at a bar, drive their separate vehicles to the man's place, they kiss on the couch, she refuses sex, he gets angry, rips off her clothes, beats and rapes her. She says he told her she "shouldn’t have invited him to her home if she wasn’t going to have sex." Never excuses the rape, of course... but at what point during this dating process/scenario should partner REASONABLY expect he/she's going to get a piece - and at what point should the other partner REASONABLY feel obliged to offer? Does it matter who paid for the drinks? Who provided transportation? Whose place you're at? I mean, it just seems wrong all around. It seems she led him on - maybe not with sexy talk or cleavage (or maybe so, we don't know) - but she had drinks, went to his place, where they proceeded to make out. Wouldn't it be *reasonable* for the guy to expect he's going to get happy? Why go through all of that with a guy, willingly - and NOT give him a clue he will NOT get into her panties, until she's at his apartment and alone with him? She didn't deserve to be raped, but damn... she was STUPID!!!
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ehlers

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2011-01-03 15-27-54

There should be no expectation It's not like the date is a transaction, where the guy puts in all this money and effort buying drinks and then she owes him something. A date is where people go out to have a good time. Nothing is expected, anyway. Ever. Similar story is going on in tech news right now. tech writer accuses Twitter engineer of sexual assault after a conference. She blogged about it and named the guy. People are picking on her for naming him. A few people commented that she had it coming because of her behavior! I just don't get it. Why can't we all agree that the rule is "Don't sexually assault people"?
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bianchi

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2011-01-03 18-21-55

She was a little unwise, BUT . . . we don't know when she decided against it, and it's not completely ridiculous to expect civilized behavior, either. Taking "no" for an answer is civilized. Ripping the rest of her clothes off, punching, and raping are not civilized.
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  • arntzen

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    2011-01-04 9-11-46-

    As a man I think that even if you're in the middle of sex and the woman says "I don't agree with this and want to stop." If you force her at that point it's still rape. That's a really piss poor defense to make of the entire situation. Just because someone has taken you home you can expect a piece, but you shouldn't force yourself on them to get it.
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  • trudie

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    2011-01-04 12-40-07

    Let's say, being taken home is a hopeful sign but not a promise. As far as I am concerned, a new guy could blow his chance anytime up until I agree to intercourse. I'm unlikely to change my mind after that--unless I catch him trying to sneakily remove the condom or use an orifice I didn't authorize.
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  • orsa

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    2011-01-04 17-32-47

    But why? No, you shouldn't force yourself on them, no matter what the situation. But you said, "Just because someone has taken you home you can expect a piece..." And that's what I'm getting at! WHY should you 'expect' a piece?
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    Minh-Phuc

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    2011-01-04 17-46-01

    Nothing wrong with expecting. The wrong is when is willing to act on that expectation, against the will of the other. It is human to have these and other expectations, that is why there is the word "disappointment" in our dictionary.
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    ohms

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    2011-01-05 2-06-15-

    Because typiy I think there are certain social understandings that either person "going home" with a member of the opposite sex met at a bar with a mutual attraction means something is going to happen. And it's not going to be Twister, Scrabble, or baking cookies. Now granted there have been times during my single days where going home with the other person or the other person coming to my place meant staying up and talking all night and really enjoying each other's company. But I can count the number of times that's happened on hand, whereas the other happened a lot more. It's a social understanding that has it's roots in privacy. You could go to an all night diner or drive somewhere to hang out in public if you wanted to extend the evening past last and not do anything that needed to be done behind closed doors. But since you're going to person's place, the assumption is that the events that are going to occur will only be appropriate in the privacy of one's dwelling.
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    bertsch

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    2011-01-05 3-00-15-

    You have to be kidding It is everyone's right (male & female) to say now at anytime. Yes, I know, I am old fashioned, but that is the way I was raised. The 'I paid for dinner/drinks/movie', 'She invited me in her place', 'She got me excited', and/or 'She came to my apartment without a chaperone', wnt out the window 50 years ago.
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    morro

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    2011-01-14 13-46-40

    Another thing that went out the window 50 years ago - and maybe it *shouldn't have* - is the advice I got from my elders: Don't lead a man on, unless you plan to go through with it! I think there might be fewer rapes and confused relationships if people would think through their actions and possible consequences BEFORE acting on sexual impulses.
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  • Gerald

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    2011-02-17 16-26-03

    Lead on means making out but making out is not the same as saying yes to sex! WTF!
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    distler

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    2011-04-02 15-05-17

    proceed, not precede
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  • orva

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    2011-09-08 8-45-10-

    Hello? Rape is a power play. It's not about sexual frustration. It's about domination, forcing another human being to bend to your will and be humiliated. A normal man who is frustrated does NOT violently rape a woman just because he feels led on and let down. An abnormal, sociopathic man could choose to rape a woman who hasn't done anything but smile at him at the bus stop. Most likely, the only thing this woman did wrong was to let a stranger into her house before she had a good read on his character.
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    hingst

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    2012-04-17 0-55-08-

    have you heard this?
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    pratt

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    2013-02-07 14-21-55

    Just a side note, how funny the story changes with the telling. After reading your synopsis and then reading the story from your link the telling changed ever so slightly. First you wrote they drove to his place then quoted correctly that it was her home (apartment) in the following sentence. You said he ripped off her "cloths" which gives slightly a different spin. The article only said he ripped off her underwear but nothing of the rest of the cloths. If what she said is the truth she did not deserve to be hit or raped anyway but it does raise the question how far did she go in removing her own cloths. No is still no but some people don't seem to have the restraint and feel justified or entitled. A commentary of some in our society today. This story changed ever so slightly with justretelling. I wonder how much more of the story may have changed from the victim (presumed) to the police and then to the reporter. I wonder what is the reality here when the telling changes ever so slightly with profound affects to our perceptions of the truth. I wonder if there is more to this story than the straight forwardwe are lead to believe.
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    selway

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    2013-10-20 5-44-14-

    Just a side note, how funny the story changes with the telling. After reading your synopsis and then reading the story from your link the telling changed ever so slightly. First you wrote they drove to his place then quoted correctly that it was her home (apartment) in the following sentence. You said he ripped off her "cloths" which gives slightly a different spin. The article only said he ripped off her underwear but nothing of the rest of the cloths. If what she said is the truth she did not deserve to be hit or raped anyway but it does raise the question how far did she go in removing her own cloths. No is still no but some people don't seem to have the restraint and feel justified or entitled. A commentary of some in our society today. This story changed ever so slightly with justretelling. I wonder how much more of the story may have changed from the victim (presumed) to the police and then to the reporter. I wonder what is the reality here when the telling changes ever so slightly with profound affects to our perceptions of the truth. I wonder if there is more to this story than the straight forwardwe are lead to believe.
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  • geier

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    2014-03-16 7-12-46-

    good points.was my mistake - I read the story wrong - I thought it said they had gone to HIS place, and I copy/pasted the quote about HER place. Funny, I didn't catch that, even when I'm thewho composed the synopsis. But it does illustrate your point, very well. As for ripping off her clothes vs. underwear, I was aware of thatbut didn't see much difference either way. Again, my own perception and not a statement of fact. Point taken.
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    estenson

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    2015-07-15 7-17-02-

    Not commenting on you personally just the stories we read in general. The man's actions were out of the norm of what I perceive of a person that is willing to punch and physiy rip off her "clothes" (even if it was just her underwear). This person after doing all this stopped only after she grabbed her cell and ed for help? Strange reaction, he hits her but is willing to stop when she grabs the cell phone! I would expect from someone like this to grab the phone long before she even had a chance to and stop only after satisfying himself. Hence my wondering what she is nottelling or possibly retelling after the fact. Maybe she had expectations after the act and is crazy enough to fabricate and injure herself to get even. Just a wild imagination, don't mind me.
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  • abbate

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    2015-12-31 6-12-37-

    That is your presumption only. My objection is the spotty reporting. The article panders to our cynicism. You are too focused on the rape and can no longer be objective on the so facts as they are presented in such a shoddy reporting of the events. I remember an article where the woman cried rape but as the police investigated further, it turned out that the woman got peeved that he was only in it for the sex but her expectation was for more than thenight stand. She fabricated a rape story. I am not saying that is what is occurring here but I hold judgement until all is said and d Just pointing out the conflicting facts being reported and funny how that the OP misread the article ever so slightly. Sounds like the studies of how a simple message gets distorted with the subsequent telling to the point the message gets completely turned around if enough people retell the story. We read a story and our own experiences often times color what we get out of the article. As you have done just now. As you say MAYBE! What makes your maybe anymore valid than another person's maybe?
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    schlichter

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    2016-04-06 8-25-14-

    I'm not presuming anything. I'm pointing out that the facts as presented MAY not be conflicting at all. It's not necessarily shoddy reporting. Your perceptions too are coloring what you get out of this article.
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